Coalesce ep 5: Gay lifestyle meets Christian Thought – What side will you take?

Coalesce ep 5: Gay lifestyle meets Christian Thought – What side will you take?

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Over the past few weeks, a particular fast food poultry establishment has caused quite a stir in our culture due to the owner expressing his personal views regarding gay marriage and donations from the company going to anti-gay marriage enthusiast groups like the Family Research Council.

Coalesce’s very own Matt Brake wrote a blog concerning this discussion in our culture which prompted the follow show.

Jason and Matt engaged in an public debate on Facebook about this issues.  (Below the video, you can find that conversation.)

Among the questions discussed:

1. How does Matt really feel about gay marriage?
2. What does Matt see as the Christian teaching on marriage and sexuality?
3. What is the role of Christianity in culture?
4. What, indeed, would Jesus ACTUALLY do?

Also, there is a very unrelated audiobook suggestion, which will set up the next episode of  Zombie Popcorn’s Coalesce discussion about micro-financing and women’s empowerment.

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The Facebook/public debate:

Jason Bayless:
Funny your article talks about the life and potential of another but forgets to mention the life that is taken for your continual support. To answer your question about should you boycott other companies that don’t share your worldview… I would say, ‘Yes’. Did you not listen to the last episode of Coalesce? 🙂
July 25 at 4:06pm via mobile ·
Matthew William Brake:
I was sleeping with my eyes open for most of it 😉
July 25 at 4:09pm ·

Matthew William Brake:
I think my goal is to point out mutual hypocrisy, mine for still eating at places that support abortion and/or have products made from slave labor (Apple), and the hypocrisy of those who are doing the same thing and also condemning Chick-Fil-A when Chick-Fil-A isn’t even really discriminating (see Chick-Fil-A’s current status post saying they don’t discriminate based on sexual orientation or preference).
July 25 at 4:20pm ·
Matthew William Brake:
Oops. Thought I read it and they added “preference.” It just says orientation.
July 25 at 4:21pm ·

Jason Bayless:
How can you say it is not discriminating. Just because they have a post on facebook that say they do not discriminate and you believe that – is closing your eyes to the issue. Yes, we all, each and every one of us, make choices that cause us to support practices that we don’t agree with – The point is once we know we need to take action, we need to stand together to fight injustices – Not make statements that its ok for one company to oppress because there are so many other companies who do the same thing. You view yourself as a person with values – so them! Don’t make excuses for people to continue the injustices.
July 25 at 4:25pm via mobile ·

Matthew William Brake:
Are they commiting injustice just because the CEO expresses a view based in his religious beliefs? If the company is not actually discriminating in its practices, then shouldn’t they simply call for a new CEO to be hired if people want to punish the one person who said something?
July 25 at 4:27pm ·

Matthew William Brake:
I would have to cut myself off from a lot of interaction with other Christians who believe marriage is between a man and a woman and think it should be legislated, and I’m not going to do that with my friends or with strangers.
July 25 at 4:28pm ·

Matthew William Brake:
Any more than I would my pro-choice friends.
July 25 at 4:28pm ·

Jason Bayless:
They are committing injustices by restricting freedoms of others – by support (giving money to) groups that are actively trying to oppress individuals, in this case people with a different sexual preference. They are discriminating in its practices when they gave over 2 million dollars to groups that have anti-gay agendas. To see details for their spending check out equalitymatters.org
July 25 at 4:32pm via mobile ·

Matthew William Brake:
I would like to see a similar round up of companies paying into groups w pro-choice practiced
July 25 at 4:36pm via mobile ·

Matthew William Brake:
Like it or not mainstream American evangelicals are by your definition anti-gay. You will either coalesce with these people or you will ostracize 30 million people and try to find shared ground. Chick-fil-A represents the majority of American evangelicals. This obviously grades a larger problem for us both
July 25 at 4:38pm via mobile · Like

Matthew William Brake:
Because you potentially won’t accept them and I’m not going to reject or avoid doing business with them
July 25 at 4:38pm via mobile ·

Jason Bayless:
You want to see a list – just google ‘companies that are pro-choice’ – then take your pick – do you want a catholic site, a business site, a non-profit, or a PAC? IF you really think that my definition of evangelicals are anti-gay then you really are sleeping with your eyes open. I think evangelicals with a narrow worldview of marriage are anti-gay. I think companies who won’t speak their hearts and pay others to do it for them are cowards and anti-gay. I would never label a people with a shared association, such as Christians to be across the board one view. To do so, would be foolish and dishonest. If you world view is black and white and no areas of gray, then I could understand your statement about ‘ostracize 30 million people’ but I know you are not black and white… well, at least I thought you were not.
July 25 at 4:50pm via mobile ·

Matthew William Brake:
I certainly know that you know evangelicals are a diverse group, but I can’t tonight many of the ones I know would probably be in support of Kathy. In many ways he represents a large part of the modern American Evangelical Ethos. While I personally would want to mold that ethos to no longer engage the culture war issues, the facts are until that day these are my people
July 25 at 4:58pm via mobile ·

Matthew William Brake:
Tonight = deny
July 25 at 4:59pm via mobile ·

Jason Bayless:
What?
July 25 at 5:00pm via mobile ·

Matthew William Brake:
In other words I know a lot of business owners and people like Dan Kathy and I won’t withdraw business from them anymore than I will from Chick-fil-A. A lot of evangelicals are trying to legislate against gay marriage and unfortunately a lot of them are my friends
July 25 at 5:02pm via mobile ·

Matthew William Brake:
I may argue against legislation but I won’t disassociate or stop doing business
July 25 at 5:02pm via mobile ·

Matthew William Brake:
I said tonight when I actually meant to say deny in the previous,
July 25 at 5:04pm via mobile ·

Jason Bayless:
Then, now more that ever, you need to step up your game. It is not an issue of turning your back to the people you know but it is about stepping up and showing your face and having your voice heard. You are in a position, that is better than most, to stand up to these evangelicals and make a difference for everyone.
July 25 at 5:05pm via mobile ·

Jason Bayless:
Doing so would not take away from anything else you feel is more important… such as abortion.
July 25 at 5:07pm via mobile ·

Matthew William Brake:
Very true…we should talk more over waffle fries 😉
July 25 at 5:07pm via mobile ·

Matthew William Brake:
Joke
July 25 at 5:07pm via mobile ·

Jason Bayless:
The people who are denied their marriage and the children don’t find it funny
July 25 at 5:08pm via mobile ·

Jason Bayless:
that was my joke 🙂
July 25 at 5:08pm via mobile ·

Mylie Thompson:
 This is a long thread, but you really have to selectively refer to a category of your friends by saying that, “unfortunately” many evangelicals against gay marriage are your friends? My closest friends are gay, and perhaps my passion for marriage equality is fueled by me being blessed to have, what I consider, the best friends in the entire world and knowing how fortunate I am. The fact that they struggle to have the same rights as me is unfortunate. Pulling the abortion card in a discussion about Chik-fil-a/discrimination is unfortunate. Friends def are not.
July 26 at 3:26pm ·

Matthew William Brake:
I may be equivocating in my abortion/gay marriage conversation. I think my general point stands regarding the levels of injustice in society that are supported by many corporations and not just Chick-Fil-A. I pull the abortion card only to say that there are U.S. “social issues” I have controversial opinions about, but I am not necessarily boycotting all of those organizations that support what I see as a terrible philosophical dehumanizing of human life. Maybe I SHOULD boycot them to be consistent, but most corporations are “mixed” when it comes to justice. I’m not going to single out Chick-Fil-A, especially when, in other areas, they represent my personal beliefs. I would have to separate myself from most U.S. evangelicals if I followed through on that principle, and I’m not going to do that.

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Jason Bayless

Jason Bayless is a life-long activist and is currently working at The Pachamama Alliance. When he is not working he spends his time recording shows, writing blogs, collecting 3D movies, and looking for any reason to use his fog machine and homemade blood.

Comments
  • John Daniel Holloway1

    August 21, 2012

    Probably my favorite episode so far.
    Full disclosure, I got a little emotional when Jason expressed his frustration about Christians proclaiming to be loving and compassionate but rejecting gays and replacing grace, love, and compassion with intolerance. I share the same frustration, as a Christian myself. I have thought the same thoughts. Very powerful.
    Also, Jason’s dedication to boycotting and being a vegan is respectable and challenging. How should our beliefs affect our spending habits? Good question.

    Reply
  • Matt2

    August 20, 2012

    I gave some thought to some of the questions I was asked in this past week’s episode, and here’s what I’ve come up with so far:

    http://embraceparadox.tumblr.com/post/29863443720/why-do-i-treat-gay-rights-and-abortion-differently-than

    Reply
  • Andrew Smith3

    August 17, 2012

    I watched episode 5 today. My gut reaction was Jason was really
    annoying until the end when Matt questioned him and he answered with a
    realistic answer. He was giving the fight the man, down with the
    corporations, blah blah, speech without a base in reality. I
    understand his point that if you see injustice regardless of your
    religious view we should strive to fight that injustice. It may be
    safe to say that Jesus saw the injustice of the women caught in the
    act of adultery and thought that the injustice of stoning her was more
    important than the sin she was caught in (conjecture not theological).
    The question then becomes how do you walk that tight rope? How do you
    live like Jesus? How do you fight injustice towards saint and sinner
    while not degrading your righteousness? The thing I dig about Jesus
    was he didn’t have morals to compromise. He was truth. When we are
    truth we are not morally bound to laws. (i’m not sure what that means
    yet)

    Back to the episode….

    The questions becomes what is my role in this injustice? Do I give
    money to the right people? Do I take money way from the wrong people?
    Do I protest? Do I lobby? Do I act locally? Do I act globally? The
    episodes present challenge to the audience is to “figure it out
    yourself” but not real world next steps. If Jason or Matt could
    exemplify, as Jason did at the end of the episode 5, a next step that
    would be really cool. (I think next steps are more than don’t buy
    apple products but hopefully become a foundation of the way we live)

    Just my thoughts not to be taken to heavily. I really enjoy listening to the dialogue and hope the episodes continue.

    Reply

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